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Chart updates

what happened to the charts , its all been drastically changed overnight. It seems all bands have been dramatically effected. How is this possible.
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  • 1
    Well I've found the bitch section for RN's last debacle. Since no one really knows y'alls "formula" for ranking (I sometimes wonder if y'all do either.) It seems that a smaller pool of zip codes would if anything make the numbers go up. I'll give this a couple of days like y'all requested but if there's not an improvement I'll be quitting this game because that's all it's become. Not saying I'm leaving because its someplace to tell someone to go to listen to our music. But I won't be putting the time into it I have been. If more artist feel like me then you have defeated the original mission of RN. To get people to listen to other artist's music.
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  • I’m frustrated
    1
    Put it back the way it was...widen the radius....put it back
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  • I’m angry frustrated confused
    1
    Just took a real look at the charts today ! What a JOKE ! Are you guys sitting in some room picking your favs ?? Bizarre ! Starting to wonder if you aren't pushing out some to make room for others? We took a vote and a week more for us. Then good luck to you all, this has been a kick in the teeth for us, sadly I feel this is ther new model. Those who are now at the top will prob stay thr, and soon this will be the norm here. Who was that guy who told us all to go write better songs, buddy you have quite a BIG pair, so you think. I listened to your music , not bad , not great ,next time try to respect your fellow artist's. They are not all as TALENTED as you think you are. PAUL ! WILL
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  • I’m happy
    I found this thread because I chose to change my genre from blues to folk nearly 20 hours ago (because I now do more folk than blues) and it isn't updating (I see that it could take two days- oof!).

    Basically I was third in blues for my area (dropped to sixth overnight but because I was changing to folk anyway didn't worry about) changed to folk, and am now seventh in folk but am showing up as sixth in blues anyway.

    I would prefer to be showing as seventh (if that is my real rank) in folk than be seventh-showing-as-sixth in blues. Argh- it is all really confusing because now I feel I am not anything genre-wise.

    I think there is a lot of buggy stuff going on and it has to be sorted because I cannot see how making it more zip/postcode specific should actually mean that people go up, not down. In my case I ought probably be second or third for what it matters.

    Ultimately it doesn't matter because I think only members care about the ranking. I have never had a gig from RN, I get all my work in real time, from word of mouth and from other gigs I do. I guess it is because where I am and the music I make the music scene is very traditional and works without reliance on a lot of internet stuff. I have also never had any contact from the industry through it and it does seem about collecting fellow musicians as "fans" (just got one who then asked me to go to their Facebook and MySpace once a week to get them plays- erm?)

    I really hope that Reverb Nation continues but starts actually being a real tool (I still just send people to YouTube for my videos because I am a live performer and they need to see me to know if they want to book/listen/see me) for real musicians and not just a I Have More Fans Than You "game". I like RN because it could easily be a One Stop portal for a musician's online stuff like YouTube, MySpace and Facebook.

    Love and peas

    • view 1 more comment
    • Nice to hear this site has little impact on your career ???, you are a very talented artist for sure. More and more venues ARE finding bands and booking them directly from RN, in REAL TIME. So I feel as artist we can all use this site for many diff personal reason's, but the one thing that should remain is an honest playing field. Those who are at the top of the charts DO get gigs from RN, so glad you are killin' it with your special and GREAT TALENT, others are scratching for what they can get, some have dropped thousands of spots overnight?? how is this possible when we have BANDS buying upwards of 10'000 FB likes a night at the top of the charts ? this is important to many and should not be minimized by those who may have it better than others. We all pay something to be here, ie money and LOTS of time. I hope to catch your killer show soon Brigid . WILL oh yeah.. great promo shot in the middle of all this ?
    • This comment was removed on 2013-01-12.
      see the change log
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  • 1
    I don't think it is just a Zip code issue.. I was ranked #2 nationwide. #3 for a long time with Childrens music. We worked very hard since we started on RN. Our plays and fan base was even trending upward - after we went to the #2 position Nationwide, before I found out that everyone has been affected.

    Then all of a sudden we dropped to #16 - while even our fans and plays, etc - were going up.. So it wasn't a localized issue.

    Now people with less fans / plays - over all stats have went way above us.
    • We dropped from 70 to over 3000 positions overnight in the Local to Global Rankings and then they have the nerver to show that we've gone up 4 positions. From #1 in our State in our Genre to, not even on the Charts period. Heck of a way to run a business. It's already screwed me out of at least one job and that was at the Sundance Film Festival. That's gonna leave a bruise on our reputation for a long time....D
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  • note " NEW" "EMBLEM3" # 1 altern artist bought 1600 likes last night, and had 62 plays ??? the #2 has 100 TOTAL RN FANS and is #2 in the COUNTRY. ? The settling down you spoke about ZACH , would have to be MAGIC to be fair to all the people who worked hard and played within RN's rules for YEARS only to be KICKED in the face ! What happened to PROMIZE ? I went to the TOP of all charts and took a look at our new first page here on RN. Nothing against those who "YOU PICKED" , are you KIDDING us ! FOR REAL , that is this best we have in the WORLD on RN??? EMBARRASSING !!!
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  • 2
    Now it looks like RN got into the "big labels game" where they put artists on the spotlights only if they fit with their business model.

    Also, it looks like RN is now one of the companies who want to kill the internet if it doesn ́t fit with their business model.

    I will not buy any likes or plays or anything because I feel like I am lying to myself, I was going to do it just for promotion, also I was gonna buy a lot of premium services this year but I have this totally clear now. I might keep my stuff here, but certainly not my time and efforts anymore cause this is just unfair, and looks like nobody from RN gives a f**k about what is happening.

    And Zack, you can moderate our comments but not give us an answer? C ́mon!
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  • I’m sad
    Sorry but there is something wrong even with your explanation, how come a friend musician ( Negroni's Trio ) that lives 10 blocks away from me has lost all of his ranking??? he is not even in the list for Miami, Fl. Every day my numbers go up steadily and in just over night I dropped from 20 to 30 National and my numbers are much, much higher than people that are now over me! I hope you guys know what you're doing.
    Luis Espindola Jazz Band, Miami, FL.
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  • I’m SAD
    Let Me Shout here,, I DON'T THINK THAT THEY HEAR US AT ALL. IF THEY DID, THEY WOULD HAVE A BETTER EXPLANATION FOR ALL THIS CRAP. AND THEY WOULD HAVE NOTIFIED US BEFORE THAT DID THIS POOP. I DON'T GET IT AT ALL...
    AS RICKY WOULD SAY TO LUCY,,,,,
    LUCY YOU HAVE SOME EXPLAINING TO DO.

    AND, NOT THAT WE WILL GET ANY... JUST TAKE THE MONEY RUN... ANOTHER COPERATION THAT DOESN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT THEY GET THE MONEY FROOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

    JOJO G
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  • This change to narrow rankings by zip code does zero to help bands that live in rural areas and travel to the bigger cities to get work. We go to the big city and drop off our Promo stuff and I got a response from on venue that, who cares you're #1 in Podunk, you're not even found in the ranking for our area. The ranking should be by Region and State at least. Small town rankings do little to get jobs in the bigger cities. Who's idea was this anyway. It stinks.
    Then you go and hose up the rankings altogether. We were #1 in our State for our Genre and now, we're not even listed and can only find the band if you look it up by name. Dropping us totally out of the rankings overnight really put the screws to us too. We have our Promo Packets stating our ranking and I get a call and they say that "it's not good to lie to them and don't call back." I'm having to take RN off of all our sites and Promo materials because in one case we dropped over 3000 positions overnight. Now there's bands with less than 100 fans that are sitting in the top positions.
    Thanks for nothing. We work our butts off to build a reputation and work our way up the charts and you give us a swift kick in 'nads.
    You said you're going to fix it. Well, 3 days later and it's still as worthless as a Yugo. My advice, get it fixed before someone else comes up with a better more reliable site and kicks RN to the curb. They sure couldn't do any worse.
    And how about all these companies we submit to on RN? Now they can't even find us and see low rankings and quickly turn the page. I wonder what they are thinking about the credibility of RN. You had a good idea, too bad you can't follow through though.....D
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  • I’m frustrated
    4
    Can we at least get an update on what is going on with the rankings?

    If there is not a problem, and the RN team is sure the new/current rankings are correct, can you please make that announcement.

    If there is a problem, can you let us know that the problem is chased down.

    I am looking for a singer-songwriter who, until 3 days ago, was #1 in San Antonio, TX and the national charts (Darrell Christopher Owens). After switching to the old control room to do a search (can't do it on the new one), I get a message saying that he is not on reverbnation.

    Is this a glitch with the switchover? Did he delete his account? Can anybody shed some light on this?

    Steve
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  • 1
    it seems that they don't care about us

    we want to buy some of the professionell reverbnation things
    but we don't trust you anymore

    okay,
    we understand

    do your thing
    we do our

    keep on rockin'
    BC
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  • This is going to BLOW UP everyday until this starts to BLOWUP on other social sites. They are taking RN into LAUGHINGSTOCK status , this WILL spread like wildfire in the music/SOCIAL community and the PLATFORM we loved , will be in the SOCIAL REAR VIEW MIRROR , y'all know what happens when society moves on, on a FAD , so self inflict your wound guys, you will still be open for biz , but MANY will be GONE , and telling this story to ALL they know. Count on it . Thr is still time to make a more reasonable change if change is needed, So PLEASE LISTEN to your LOYAL PAYING members, we are NOT HAPPY BOSS ! WILL
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  • 4
    At the top of this conversation there are the FB share button and tweet button, I actually used them cause is not possible that only 71 of us notice this RN behavior.
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  • I’m pissed
    1
    This is ridiculous!! I put a lot of hard work into getting my profile up to a 4.300 band equity score only to be knocked down off the national rankings over 200 spots in about a day!!!! no waaaaaaaayyyyyyy will I stand for this much longer!! I'm paying 20$ a month to Reverb and put forth time and effort into my music, fanning, listening and all that just to have it be taken away by some crap!! Plus during this time...my equity still went up 40 some points and I've lost 40 spots in the charts....this is becoming a job!!!
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  • 1
    Right-ON Elmer, I cannot even access my band page or anyone elses because "Well dang, there's a techinical problem on ReverbNation"!! i agree to Elmer's suggestion and like the FB share button and spread this WildFire Bull !!
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  • 2
    Pretty sad...... Your business model needs a little help RN. It's not in YOUR best interest to piss off those that make this site what it is. Hello! It's not rocket science! If there is a problem, then be straight with us and tell us that there is and you're working on it, and keep us updated. Being silent and not addressing the problem, or us, is not the smart move! Just give us the truth, we can handle it. Don't blow the smoke up our asses and insult our intelligence! Putting your head in the sand isn't working! Just this morning I was going to purchase the 100mb upload for $40. I will be holding on to my $40 thank you very much. I hope you get your shit together and stop pissing off your clientele. Really not a smart thing to do. We'll all be watching to see how you handle this issue. Looks like this has the potential of "defining" who and what you truly are made of. We're waiting!
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  • I’m Disappointed, frustrated.
    2
    The ball is in your court!
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  • I’m sad
    4
    Share this problem with your RN friends and bring more to this conversation or this will be the new RN minus the CREDIBILITY we as a group were striving for. Go to and start shouting. If you were relatively unaffected from this change , you may not even be aware but you will soon realize that the site you are on will carry far less respect in the INDIE Music community . All will know that those with the MONEY to buy plays or buy FB , twitter likes by the THOUSANDS or just plain old pay people to make up fans for thr sites , than so be it. This will not be the fertile hotbed of young and innovative and or talented artist's it started out as. we have already lost many when you to some sold out to FB. We understand all biz is based on how much money you can scroll away , at least try and disguise this behavior just a little . Many of these young bands can BARELY afford your prices for being here . We all welcome constructive change, but to wake up to a completely new place is unacceptable. So contact ALL your RN friends and lets ALL talk . Or welcome to the NEW RN. We will be gone...
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  • I’m pissed, sad, hurt, confused, frustrated, determined to find a better option
    1
    Since I complained, Reverbnation has shut me out. I cannot even get into my account now. Unilateral change of terms of service. No response in email. Getting shut out??? Are you kidding?
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  • 1
    atm I think they have bigger fish to fry (i.e. getting the site back online)

    I am sure management here are absolutely aware of how the users feel about the recent changes and will figure out how to address the problem in due time. Ideally I bet they'd like for the people posting here on this very public forum to forget about it, but I think for the most part they can see that if that were the case they could lose participation of a large chunk of users. By this I mean that I mean they will probably still maintain an account here, but will focus their efforts on another outlet.

    Kinda makes you wonder if they took it down intentionally to perform an emergency patch on a core piece of broken code. Hrmmmn. They are being very hush hush here in regards to the outage.

    Who knows maybe kill two birds with one stone?
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  • I’m frustrated
    2
    Screw this. I'm getting my lawyer. Who's with me?
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  • 1
    It is pretty disheartening to see my national rank go down 1000 positions in one day, I must say! Still, this site performs a service valuable to me, and it doesn't cost me anything. Guess I'll just ride out the storm and see what happens. I sysmpathize with most of these complaints, though, it is pretty ridiculous, I think this new change kind of backfired on them.
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  • 2
    Anybody can make wrong desicions, but they can keep in touch and tell us the truth. If an agent from RN can moderate our comments, since that moment we know they have acces to this stuff and they also can explain what ́s wrong to calm the waters.

    In my dirty, angry, sad and frustrated mind, there are 2 options here: or RN owners they don ́t really care about us, or they just have no idea about what to do with the mess they just have created (maybe both). Silence is not an option, and I ́m sure this is not an IT trouble.
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  • I’m spitting nails
    3
    The trouble is that no one at RN has any knowledge of the music industry, Why in heaven's name would I want to compare with the guy or gal down the street? If my artists come from Nashville, no one cares if it is 37221 or 37013. It should be entire Nashville. I have dealt with them and most of them are well meaning but unknowledgeable. They have no clue about Band Equity and their promo campaigns benefit one thing only and that is the number of fans on Facebook. They do not realize that they have what could be a valuable tool because promoters use it. I have been in this business for over 40 years but dealing with the likes of Patrick, I feel like I am back teaching the business at Belmont except RN doesn't get it!!! I have already threatened them with legal action!!
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  • Perhaps it's not a technical problem the site is down, maybe an upset artist has invaded the office and turned their power off :)
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  • The trouble is that no one at RN has any knowledge of the music industry, Why in heaven's name would I want to compare with the guy or gal down the street? If my artists come from Nashville, no one cares if it is 37221 or 37013. It should be entire Nashville. I have dealt with them and most of them are well meaning but unknowledgeable. They have no clue about Band Equity and their promo campaigns benefit one thing only and that is the number of fans on Facebook. They do not realize that they have what could be a valuable tool because promoters use it. I have been in this business for over 40 years but dealing with the likes of Patrick, I feel like I am back teaching the business at Belmont except RN doesn't get it!!! I have already threatened them with legal action!!
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  • I’m disappointed.
    7
    Business 101 = Never Blindside your Customers. Say again ...
    Business 101 = Never Blindside your Customers.

    No matter the industry, no matter the decade, one truth has always been taught in business school and that is to always put your customers first ... your customers are always right ... never deliver your customers an unpleasant surprise.

    RN joins an ugly line of new age companies that put ego and/or technology ahead of its customers and will likely pay an unfortunate price - not only the loss of customers in the short-term, but much more significant, the loss of loyalty and trust. One you lose trust, you never get it back quite the way it was. That's unfortunate, but that's reality.

    Ultimately, RN will do the right thing ... take the site down and re-engineer the charts back to something more palatable to its customers but, unfortunately for RN, the damage will be done.

    My only comment to my fellow artists will be not to target your anger at the messengers - the core RN Support Team that we communicate with on a daily basis (been in their shoes in another life). My hope would be that the VPs of Marketing and Engineering who sold this mess to the CEO in the windowless and thoughtless conference rooms take the full burden of blame.

    In the meantime, stay on course, common sense will prevail.
    • view 2 more comments
    • Hey dubbidellic, thanks for your response. I've been working in Silicon Valley new age companies (to fund my family and music passion) and have seen first-hand this lack of customer empathy take down some pretty big egos. It's a shame but it's a humbling lesson that is sometimes learned too late.

      Congratulations on your improved ranking. But just so you understand why there is so much anger and disbelief amongst many other RN artists, I am a victim of the new algorithms:

      A Nice Vibe / Genre=POP, 2.5 Years on RN
      Profile - http://www.reverbnation.com/anicevibe

      Ranking Before:
      LOCAL #1, NATIONAL #8, GLOBAL #17, ALL GENRES #127
      Ranking After:
      LOCAL #3, NATIONAL #138, GLOBAL #243, ALL GENRES #2213

      Change:
      LOCAL -2, NATIONAL -130, GLOBAL -226, ALL GENRES -2086 positions

      I played all the RN Rules - very active with my fans and fellow artists with over 590K song plays, 750K total fans, and 160K widget impressions. It's a classic 'WTF Happened' overnight ... how can Local chart restructuring affect my National and Global ranking so dramatically?

      Regardless, my music is my music and I will continue to do what I've always done - but will likely pull myself off of RN and invest my energies elsewhere. Greg
    • I totally understand and should clarify. Though my rank went up, I did not think it was a fair representation. Overnight my rank doubled nationally, globally and locally improved by 400%.

      Being fairly new to RN and having already found a ton of really good new music/bands, I'm basically concerned that this could ruin a great site if not fixed.
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  • honestly i think these charts are true ive been active on reverb for about 6 months now, i dropped over 50 tracks last year and 4 cps is ell almopst 20 copies a week on iTunes. i was ranked at like 150 locally and i put out more music then everyone. im nosw ranked number one, yall on some bullshit if you think they wrong, you aint working #work harder
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  • I’m very anxious
    lol B futuristic , huh??? This "BAND" just posted , I checked and it shows you joined up TODAY ?? W T F are you talking about sally , either you don't want to show your face or you are some kind of BS , which one is it B-who gives a ___. So is RN planting fake post's now?? please respond ???
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  • Hi Zak, what I don't understand is, I was number 2 for all genres in my city..now I'm at 18. The dude in the number one spot is from my city...never seen him in the top ten on the chart before. I'm confused.
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    • view 1 more comment
    • I have recorded all this, to be seen, on You Tube.Hope it gets the WORD out...Go and watch it! http://youtu.be/ZNukYJNGRvM
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  • I’m pissed
    1
    After dropping a stupid amount across the board despite our bands equity being as strong as ever, despite that we clawed our way up to almost the top of our chart nationally and now sitting are sitting at the bottom. .....I decided I'm not going to pay for this kind of abuse and neglect....SO.....before doing anything I always check my stats +31 fans showing: I think cool then I delete the subscribed services that I have been paying for and log out-There you go-not paying to be jerked around and guess what reverb users I look at my profile again while exiting and spot that my fan numbers JUST DROPPED -481.........HOLY.....this is what you get!!!!!!!
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  • This reply was removed on 2013-01-13.
    see the change log
  • I’m W T F
    my band equity is 21000, up from yesterday, chart posistion still dropping fast? plays, likes, you know,, you guys dropped me mid day ! ? Obviously our cash was good enough when you took it, As we grew , you required cash for the increased fan base and large song files. I participated in promo.s and most of all we all talked RN up to EVERYONE we met . Thanks
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  • 2
    Since the last days it seems, that the charts are made by a random machine.
    For example: in the German Blues charts the new #1 is in all parts of the Stats much lower than #6, the former #1.

    So please make no Charts instead of this unfair things.
    Fix your bugs and than start charts again.
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  • 2
    I don't believe the zip code thing....my chart seems to have brought in a wider range, not narrowed down to my area AND how can someone who is NEVER on RN or supporting other artists and only has 7 RN fans JUMP AHEAD OF ME? The only thing they have is a huge number of Twitter followers....how does THAT measure their music and activity on the RN charts??? I'm sad. All my hard work has pushed me backwards..... :(
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  • I’m SAD
    1
    WTF, I KEEP ON DROPPING MORE AND MORE EVERY DAY ON THE GLOBAL ALL GENRE RANKINGS.... NOW IT IS AT 1311. I WORK HARD ON THIS SITE EVERYDAY, HARDLY MISS A DAY, AND NOW I GET REWARDED WITH A BIG KICK IN THE KNOCKERS.... YEA,,,,, YOU PEOPLE AT RN FIXED THIS ONE GOOD. I LOOK AT ALL THE SO CALLED ARTIST AHEAD OF ME IN GLOBAL GENRE, AND SOME DON'T EVEN HAVE 200 FANS OR EVEN A SONG UP FOR ANYONE TO HEAR... AND THE RICH GUYS AT RN DON'T EVEN GIVE A CRAP.... WISH THAT I WAS AT YOUR OFFICE ON MONDAY MORNING TO GIVE YOU A PIECE OF MY MINE, BUT THEN AGAIN, YOU WOULD PROBABLY JUST SCRATCH YOU WOODEN HEADS... THEY JUST DON'T GET IT... SORRY TO SAY THIS, BUT THIS IS WHAT I AM THINKING RIGHT NOW...

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  • 1
    This is ridicules. You mess around with people that work hard to be on the top 10 chart positions and now you decide that to be on no 1 or two or whatever for more than a year is bull shit and you change things to suite you. The day before yesterday i was no 2 local and now drop 13 positions. This is sick.
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  • 1
    Maria~I agree with you about the "zip code thing" NOT narrowing down one's area-it greatly expanded it in my case. I went from #1 locally to #14, #680 globally to #75,000....With such a drastic change in rankings, I don't see how this is going to "work itself out" in a few days.
    • well said, I went down by 72 places overnight..and I do shit like this...

      And it begun, I step in wars field
      The weapon steady swings ya gotta duck!
      I branded my tongue, sweat and Forged steel
      The second petty kings are horror struck!
      The amulet I hung, eleven lords kneel
      The legendary Sings to God above!
      A banquet for one, a seven course meal
      The seven deadly sins get swallowed up!
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  • I’m frustrated
    3
    "Saturday, January 12, 2013

    Changes to ReverbNation Charts

    Happy New Year! ReverbNation is no longer a 'band' or 'music' site so much as it is a merchant of promotional wares to a paying clientele. Freeloaders are welcome to hang out but don't expect any success on the basis of musical merit alone.

    You knew it had to happen sooner or later. Top bands plunged in the charts overnight and were surpassed by lesser bands with little fan interest. What happened? RN wants to sell promotional goods and paying customers want to see results. Can't blame them. Don't have fans? Your music doesn't stand out? Pay RN to provide a push and, as of 2013, that push involves pushing underachievers up the charts ahead of overachieving (but freeloading) bands.

    At first it all seemed like a terrible mistake. None of it made sense. Bands that were previously in the top ten also found themselves racing up the global charts but simultaneously plunging in all other charts; musicians assumed there was some kind of technical error. Well, bands were rising in the global charts while falling off the genre cliff because there was (still is?) a mass exodus of chart-watching free-loading (and angry) bands deleting their accounts.

    RN is still a top site for hosting music but if you're interested in ruling the charts RN is now, apparently, a pay to play site. This is all to familiar a story. Anyone remember MP3.com? Merit takes a back seat to money."
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  • I’m Disillusioned with this site
    I went down by 72 places overnight? wtf? I'm the best lyricist on earth with 8 number 1 tracks in the UK unsigned charts under my belt...Make better somngs? you serious? have you even heard my stuff? for gods sake look at what I do with words...
    And it begun, I step in wars field
    The weapon steady swings ya gotta duck!
    I branded my tongue, sweat and Forged steel
    The second petty kings are horror struck!
    The amulet I hung, eleven lords kneel
    The legendary Sings to God above!
    A banquet for one, a seven course meal
    The seven deadly sins get swallowed up!
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  • I’m Grrrrrrrrrr!
    1
    If you check out the old control room and compare with the new control room you'll find that the chart positions are different!!!
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  • I’m Biting angry!
    1
    How did I go from Rank #1 to #11 on the local chart, and from 40 to 301 on the national chart in 5minutes! Please help me to understand Reverb???
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  • 2
    This is terrible. After all the time and money spent. I feel like I have been robbed worse than when Facebook did their bate and switch. Seems like it's time to drop these types of pages and just focus on our own web page. Can't get duped there.
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  • In my old control room my B E S is over 24000 , in the new fake one I am 21000 , I've dropped 600 spots on the global, overnight. While comedy , and someone reading a sermon is in the top GLOBAL spots ?? This would be funny if it wasn't so F'd up !
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  • This reply was removed on 2013-01-13.
    see the change log
  • O.G. Miller is not a happy artist right now because of his change!
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  • Well, that's 3 days now and still not seeing it leveling out too much, still everyone that is now ahead of us have less than 100 Reverb fans as opposed to our 22000.

    Would i be right in saying this new change definitely reflects more on Facebook and Twitter fans...both of which are easily purchased?
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